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Melissa Shanahan

#156: A Different Path Forward as a Law Firm Owner with Jeanette Mora

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So often, we have this black-and-white view of what’s possible for us in terms of our careers. We think we have to either go and work for someone else or start our own firms. But the truth is there’s some middle ground to be explored here that can pay off for you in a big way, and Melissa’s guest on the show this week did exactly that.

Jeanette Mora is an estate planning, probate, and trust attorney. After a long-held, successful career in the financial industry, she decided to make a pivot into law in her 40s. So many people believe they have to stay on one path, even if exploring what else is possible is weighing on them, and Jeanette is here to give you permission to go after something different, just like she did.

Tune in this week as Jeanette and Melissa invite you to stop writing off all the possibilities available to you. Jeanette is giving you the 30,000-foot view of what it means to make the call to switch up your life or career, guiding you through the process of intentionally choosing your path forward, and offering her top tips for anyone who wants to explore their options.

If you’re a law firm owner, Mastery Group is the way for you to work with me. This program consists of quarterly strategic planning facilitated with guidance and community every step of the way. The enrollment window for Mastery Group is open right now, so click here to join us!

Show Notes:

What You’ll Discover:

What prompted Jeanette’s career in law.

The changes she’s made in her business since being a part of Mastery Group.

Why the decision to merge her business with another firm was a very strategic decision for Jeanette.

How indecision and staying in limbo is the biggest thing that will keep you feeling stuck.

Why so many people stay on one path, even if they want to explore other options.

How Jeanette’s firm has changed since she took up a merger with another firm.

Jeanette’s tips for anyone who wants to explore their options.

Why Jeanette is deciding to continue to be part of Mastery Group.

Featured on the Show:

Create space, mindset, and concrete plans for growth. Start here: Velocity Work Monday Map.

Join Mastery Group

Jeanette Mora

The New Psychology of Money by Adrian Furnham

Lawclerk

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Full Episode Transcript:

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I'm Melissa Shanahan and this is the velocity work podcast Episode #156.

This podcast is for attorneys who are running their own firms. We explore tactics, tools, and stories related to pushing past simply lawyering well and into building a successful firm. Working in your firm and working on your business are two very different things. This podcast focuses on the latter.

Melissa Shanahan: Hey, everyone, welcome to this week's episode. You know, truthfully, I don't even know how to open up this conversation, that you're gonna hear today, with Jeanette Mora. You know, we're in territory, in this conversation, that I'm not super comfortable with; I don't know the ins and the outs of. But it felt important to bring this conversation to the podcast so that listeners have a perspective and hear from someone who successfully merged with another firm.

By successfully, I mean on all counts: Financially, in terms of freedom, in terms of the support that she's receiving for her business, that she's running inside of the firm that she joined. And, all of the positives, after talking with her prior to the podcast, made me want to bring her on.

I think that so often, it's black-and-white to us; you either go work for someone else, or you have your own law firm. There is some middle ground here, that she explored and she went after, and it paid off in a big way for her. My hope is that this episode, helps you get a 30,000-foot view on the possibilities for yourself.

Well, without further ado, let's get into it. Today's conversation is with Attorney Jeanette Mora. Welcome to this week's episode of the velocity work podcast. I am thrilled to have Jeanette Maura on the podcast. Welcome, Jeannette.

Jeanette Mora: Hello, hello, thank you for having me. I’m so honored.

Melissa: Oh my gosh, me too, that you took time to be here, and have this conversation. For everyone listening, I think it's gonna be really valuable. I want to share with the audience who you are, and about your practice, about how you got to where you are now. And then, we'll dig into how you got to where you are now. But before you share a more formal introduction…

From my perspective, Jeanette is an amazing attorney, who cares deeply about her clients and her team. It's very evident the way that she operates, how much she cares about her team. And, just one of the wisest, most centered humans that I've come across. I really enjoy talking to you. I know it probably doesn't always feel that way, like nobody always feels that way. Right?

But you do a very good job of coming back to the truth, coming back to the troops, coming back to the truth, as you're navigating all the decisions you have to make, as the owner of your firm. So, if you want to bring people up to speed with who you are, and how you've gotten to where you are now, and then we can dig into questions.

Jeanette: Melissa, thank you so, so much for that great introduction. I'll have your twenty on the side, later.

Melissa: Perfect. Sounds good. No.

Jeanette: Thank you. Thank you, I really appreciate it. And, thank you for the kind words. So, I am an estate planning probate trust attorney. I also do guardianship cases. I am a second career attorney. So, I started my law career pretty late in life. I mean, really, in my 40s, in all honesty.

After I had a successful career, in the financial advisory business, working for some large financial firms, the reality, after the big recession from 2008-9-10 and just the aftermath of all of that. Where I opened my eyes to say, “What do I really want to do? Where do I really find joy?” And, it was in helping clients, and advocating for clients, and helping them resolve their problems.

That prompted me to make a big turn and say, “You know what, I want to go to law school, what do I need to do?” It allowed me to open the doors and start that path. I did that, I got into law school. I started school in 2014.

My mom and dad had lived in Central Florida, for a couple of years, and they were retired. How many… How often this has happened in your 40s, where you call your parents and say, “Hey, I'm going to come live with you. Can I come live with you and start over? I'll help out in the meantime.” So, I had to put that barrier, that ego, down and just say, “It's okay to start over.”

One of my lessons, as a financial advisor when I was advising retirees or pre-retirees, I learned that individuals, throughout our lifetimes, we don't do the exact same thing that we started out in, after college. It's really not the norm to be in the same industry forever. Retirees would say, “Yeah, when in my 20s, I would sell insurance. I was a car salesman. I did this. I was a teacher.”

At the time that they were in their retiring age, 60s, 70s, or later, I loved learning about those clients’ journeys, and learning about what they did, really, the previous 10 years of their working careers. So, that gave me the permission to give myself, to not judge, and say, “It's okay to take a lateral move, or take a few steps back to start over, and utilize all of the things that I learned in my prior career,” and kind of coming full circle, where I am today.

Here, coming full circle, I am a trust in the state's attorney, on the other side of the financial advisory world. As a financial advisor, you're working with attorneys and their clients, with estate planning and trust matters. Now, I'm on the other side, and I'm that lawyer working with the financial advisor. So, it really did come full circle, over time.

I look forward to continue on to what the next steps, what the next phases, will be. I, kind of, got out of that mindset to know that this was meant to be, and I'm exactly where I am meant to be. I've been practicing now since 2019, since I was licensed. So, I'm somewhat of a newbie attorney, but not so newbie professional.

Melissa: Yeah. Okay. Jeanette, joined Mastery Group and took part in sprints. Was it in 2020? Or 2021?

Jeanette: I believe it was 2020. 2020.

Melissa: Yeah, that's right.

Jeanette: Right around 2020.

Melissa: So, you were an active, engaged participant and member. You made amazing headway. I mean, Monday Map / Friday Wrap was a practice you were really committed to, and always learning, and always improving. And, it wasn't linear. There were times where it was like, you’d throw your hands up and be like, “Well, that went to hell.”

But then also, there were big wins on the front, of you really taking control and navigating your calendar, etc. It was such a pleasure working with you. Then, towards the end of last year, you wrote and said, “Some big things are changing. We should chat.” Do you want to share with everyone what those changes were, occurring behind the scenes?

Jeanette: Absolutely. First of all, just going back to your work and your group with Sprint and Mastery Group, it was perfect timing. I mean, it was perfect alignment, because it was right when I started my firm. Well, I started at the end of 2019. Then, 2020 came, and all of our lives were changed for good right around February and March of 2020. That was right around the time, I believe, when I started Mastery and ultimately going right into Sprint.

All of that, in terms of the timing, and being able to say, “How am I going to run my business? But now, with this model of not the traditional business?” That I thought I'd be running when I started my firm in end of 2019. You know, “How am I gonna run my business now from my spare bedroom? How am I going to run my business now?”

So, there were all of these changes that took place at the same time. I'm so ever grateful to have been exposed to your work and to have been introduced to your work. And, ultimately jump in and just, kind of, start grinding the numbers, and being able to see how to run the business under the circumstances that was so not traditional. So very, very grateful for that.

In 2020, we were able to, very quickly, realize that we never had any slowdowns in 2020. Based on the areas of law that I practiced, very quickly the volume just became extremely, extremely high towards later in 2020.

Of course, running the business and how to measure, how to start learning how to measure, how to have metrics, how am I looking at my team? How many hats am I wearing? And so those were really big eye openers.

2021 came on, and that's when I started looking at, what are the goals? That specifically came from your work, from working with your team. What are my goals? What is my goal this year? Before, we were just doing the work. We were being fully reactive. Fully reactive. Just, who called in? What did they need? That was it. But now let's start measuring.

Towards the middle of 2021, it was very clear that we were definitely going to hit our numbers. I never would have expected the numbers that I hit, based on my conversations and my work with your team. In terms of; what are my quarterly numbers? What do I need to make on a monthly basis? How do I need to run this business? The volume was certainly there.

Towards the end of the year, I had a wonderful encounter with a colleague of mine, who wanted to join some alliances, referral based. Once we got to talking, and learning about my volume, and learning about the work that I did, would it make sense?

It was almost like, an open door to say, “Hey, you know what? I have about 20 hats that I have on, right now. And, here, we have a lot of hats that we can take off of you so you can do a little focus a little bit more. One of the biggest lessons in running the business was, for me, that I love being a visionary on where the business is going. But my preference, was to be the advocate, moreso, with my clients.

A lot of the administrative and running the business… Running the business tasks and hats that we, as business owners have to wear, I prefer to outsource that. Either, I outsourced it all myself, by growing myself, and in investing in my own firm, and building capital to bring in those types of those people. Or, I joined or aligned myself with someone or some entity that already has that, that can provide that for me.

That was the opportunity that came about to me with my current firm, Widerman Malek, PL. It was a firm that came about of a number of entrepreneurs, so the entrepreneurship mindset existed with just about all of the attorneys at the firm. My area of law was not a focus within the central Florida region, where I was already located, so that was almost a quick and easy puzzle fit.

Two pieces of a puzzle that just fit so perfectly together, and gave me the opportunity to say, “You can run your business as a business,” however, we will handle payroll. We'll handle marketing. We'll handle HR stuff. We'll handle other overhead things that are part of running that business.

It was very important to feel that alignment, because I felt I am an entrepreneur, and I am a visionary, and not all opportunities, that might have come my way prior to that, were the best fit. For any business owner out there, if you have that business ownership, you have that business ownership, entrepreneurial, new business development mindset, then you don't want to give that up. Right?

That's the fear, when you're talking to other firms, when you think you're going to join another firm, “I'll lose that. I’ll lose that independence.” But I think that I found alignment. I put it out into the universe, and it came and it fell on my lap. It really was a perfect fit, where now I am running my business, just like I was running my business before, with the same intentional focus, marketing niche, however, grateful with the additional support that I have, to be able to run and carry the volume that was occurring within that practice.

Melissa: Yeah, I mean, this is so wonderful. When I first learned of the opportunity that you had, there were questions I had. Oh, is she just so swamped she's pushing the escape button? Or, is this a really smart strategic move, it's not escaping?

It became really clear to me, as I talk to you more, especially the beginning of 2022, that this was a strategic smart move. It was everything you wanted; it wasn't an escape button. It was what you wanted. I think there's probably so many law firm owners out there, who, if they didn't have any shame around admitting it, they would want that too.

I think there's this unnecessary pressure to just do it all. Raise it up traditional. In a traditional sense, law firm owner. Sure, build it on your terms, but like you said, there's a lot that comes with that. When you're going 0-to-1, you are wearing 20 different hats. You are trying to figure out the capital, and how to get the right human capital in, and how to get the money in to make all that possible.

There are so many things and some people might not want that. They might just want to still be the visionary of what they're working on, but have some of the things taken off their shoulders, so that they can really knock it out of the park with their strengths. So, all that to be said, I really wanted to have you on because I think there is a percentage of listeners out there that feel like, that's giving up or that that's releasing their dreams, or giving up on their dreams.

I actually think that you could be such a shining example as, “No. Actually, this was the ticket to your dreams.” I don't know if you have anything you want to say here, but and I do have some specific questions I can ask, but yeah-

Jeanette: Yeah. No. I definitely hear exactly where you're coming from. I think that it is… A lot of folks will look at what their structure is, what it is that they're looking to do… And I'll be very honest with you, at the very beginning, I felt that little piece. And, that's part of our ego that says, “Am I failing at this? Did I make a decision because I was giving up? Did I make a decision because I don't want to do it anymore?” And it's like, “Well, no. Not really.”

I felt that I knew exactly where my business was going, how fast it was growing. I tend to have a very high level of, I guess, excellence, turn-around, so the reputational aspect of it... It's almost like that boat; if you have a boat full of water, but you keep adding water to it, and you don't have the resources to pull out the rest of the water, well, your boat’s going to sink.

If you see the writing on the wall, success can come wonderfully, but too much success, too quickly, when you're not ready for it, can really, really be detrimental overall, and burn you out. So, it was very strategic for me.

I also had one additional thing, where it was my responsibility, or rather, my obligation towards some personal family matters that were also taking place, parallel to running the business. My parents are elders, and you know, there were some medical things going on. I remember when I first started the firm, my mom had just had major back surgery, and I was drafting pleadings in the hospital, on the bed, or on the on the side bed, while I was there.

You quickly realize, what are my I competing priorities? You have competing priorities. What are the things that I want to focus on? We all have a lot of competing priorities, I just felt that, for me, I have to be okay with that. For me, I wanted to make an intentional decision to say, “I want to be able to spend more time with my parents, or my mom, or whomever. And, if I need to be away for a minute, I know my firm is going to still run, or my practice, or my clients are still going to be taken care of. So, it's not 100% on me.”

Obviously, as a solo firm owner, you do feel that everything is 100% on you, right? That's a big decision-making process that you have to do. But the biggest thing that you have to make… But the biggest thing, really, is to pull down that mask, and not feel as though you are failing at your business. Because you're taking a pivot, you're pivoting into a different strategy.

For me, I'm still running my business as a practice within the firm. So, I'm fully responsible for what I run. My goals are still the same numbers that I had, as a business owner. I'm still running the metrics similar. And, I'm more involved, actually now, at looking at the management report, at looking at the income report, and looking at what came in, what I've closed. So, those metrics, believe it or not, I feel I have a little more freedom to review, than when we're running the solo business. Where there's a lot, again, competing priorities. So, you have it's a good point. It's a very, very good point to make, in that respect.

Melissa: Yeah. I think, just for everyone listening, I know this almost seems contradictory to the reason my company exists; it’s to help law firm owners build the firm that gives them the life that they want. There is no right path.

I'm just thinking of where you were. You had a newer firm; it was exploding. Your firm was growing like gangbusters. And, you were just trying… The wheels were coming off. You were trying to hang on, keep the integrity of the work, and also deal with the family obligations that you had. There was so much pulling at you.

It was just the stage you were in, where it was like, “Okay, it doesn't always have to be like this.” But you had a journey in front of you to get the ship righted, so that you could feel the way you wanted to feel, in your business.

So, it wasn't impossible to create that. I want to make sure everybody hears this. It's a decision. She could have kept going on a path… Her priorities, she chose, were, “No. Why?” I'm wondering, to you, when you weigh out the decision… Because, you know you could have been successful there. You are sharp, you're smart, you were dedicated; still are.

I'm just thinking of you, at that time, when you were dealing with all of this. You absolutely, could have ridden that out. And, you absolutely, could have considered other options. So, it wasn't that you didn't believe in yourself. It wasn't that you didn't think it was possible. I guess what I'm hearing you say is, “I just chose something different. And, I liked my reasons for it.”

Jeanette: Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly right.

Melissa:  I think the reason I wanted to have you on, is so that people feel like they have permission to choose something different. Just like your reasons for it; you don't have to feel like a failure, if you don't go this one path. Like, what? There is not just one path to success in life.

Jeanette: I love the opportunities we're in, right now. There's just so much opportunity out there, and being true with yourself, being true with your purpose, with your vision, and being able to say there are paths.

I go back to where my career started, in the financial industry, and I chose to make that change. I chose to make that change because that was my gut feeling; was tugging at me to make a change. And, I found the path to do it. But here we are, and it's almost like, it's like a full circle. You gain opportunities every time you do something new and different. Because you have… It's like a tree with all of the rings; you're just building your rings, and that's okay. It's totally okay. I love it.

Melissa: That is the best. That is the most beautiful way to say that. “You gain opportunities with every…” I don't remember how you said it, but with every decision you make…

Jeanette: Every experience.

Melissa: Yeah. You gain…

Jeanette: Every decision, experience…

Melissa: I think that people… Well, I know. Not only because I've experienced it, but I witness it, people stay in indecision. It's like the kind of waffle… They're in one thing and they feel a tug, but they just keep going. I feel like, even just to explore other options, so that you know what your options are, specifically.

I think people hold themselves back, for a bunch of different reasons, instead of just cutting through the crap. Just figure out what, exactly, my options are, and I'm going to make a decision. I'm going to stop being in limbo. I'm going to stop being in one thing and feeling like I want to, maybe, be in something different. I don't know.

Just make decision. The power of a decision is, what you just said, it's like, “Ah.” Then, you can just go and the opportunities present itself so clearly. You were cutting yourself off of because you were, kind of, waffling or just not all-in on the thing that you were… The trajectory that you were on. Oh my gosh, that is so beautifully said. That's the truth. I guess, that's the takeaway.

Listen, if anybody is listening to what Jeanette is saying, even if you don't feel the tug to look into other options than the route that you're on right now, that alone, just that principle… Where are you not making a decision, in your own world, that you just need to make, so that you can open yourself up to what's next along that path? Whether that's around hiring someone… Just decide yes or no. Not like, trying to decide. The power making a decision, man!

Jeanette: Many times, to add to that, when you make that decision, and you’ve pondered it for so long, you always come back to, “Why didn't I do this sooner?”

Melissa: Totally. Exactly.

Jeanette: “What was I waiting for?” That's something that we're all guilty of; we all do, and for various reasons. Some of it is… Sometimes confidence, sometimes just the indecisiveness, could be that we don't trust our own possible instincts, or maybe, we're listening to others and their experiences.

Others’ experiences aren't your experiences, they're just not. There's a plan for you. If there's something that's presented to you, it's being presented to you for a reason. We look back, and I'm getting a little philosophical now, but you look back at some of the decisions that you didn't make, possibly, but then they presented themselves again, in some other form, later on, because you're meant to do it. So just do it.

Melissa: Yeah, yeah. I love that. What would it look like if we all just strived to have less of that question, in our life? Like, “Why didn’t I do this sooner?” How can we stop asking ourselves that? Because we just do it when we have the nudge, or the instinct, or the pull.

Okay. You mentioned, also, others’ experiences. Sometimes we're looking around, others’ experiences… You're mentioning all the reasons I wanted people to hear your story. Because, I think, that is one reason people stay on one path, even when it feels like there may be an opportunity to explore other options.

They're looking around to other people, and the success that other people are experiencing, or the milestones that they get to, and you just keep thinking, “Well, that. That is what I should be getting to. That's what I'm going to create.” But “that” is other people's experiences, just like what you said.

And, the impact of having too many inputs, not filtering what you are allowing in, to really mess with your brain, is great. Because, meaning great like weighty, it is not a good thing to be looking around at others so often.

Sometimes, when we lift our head to do that, we end up comparing our journey, and where we are on our journey, to where someone else is on a different point in the journey. But we're comparing it like it's apples to apples, and it isn't.

So, I think that's really wise, and a good reminder for people, too. That looking around and having envy for where someone is, and that's what you're going to go for, that's what you're going to create, you’ve got to be careful.

Jeanette: So true.

Melissa: I heard a quote, the other day. Jeanette, I feel like you will love this. So, for those in the podcast, because it's a part of the quote, I'm getting ready to say a cuss word. I just want you to know that. It says, it fits well here, “The grass is always greener on the other side that is fertilized with bullshit.”

Jeanette: So true, that's great.

Melissa: Oh, that's so good. The man who wrote, The Psychology of Money, it was a quote from him. I can't think of his name, at the moment. But-

Jeanette: That is so good.

Melissa: Yeah.

Jeanette: We’re in such an environment where there's a lot of exhibitionism of whatever is going on in people's lives, and as human nature makes us feel the FOMO, right? Fear-of-missing-out. “Oh,” or, “I'm not doing this. I'm not doing as good as this person,” or that person, or that attorney, or that business owner.

Everyone has a different journey. Everyone has different motivations. And, it is so important for us to really stay in our lane; we have our own lane. Other folks’ lane is not meant to be your lane. Different motives and different resources. That's okay, that's very much okay.

There are folks who have done phenomenal. There are phenomenal business owners. I think it's great. I have a colleague who just bought a humongous building, it has like 17… I'm so proud of them; that is so awesome. They've been practicing for a little bit now. Their firm has just grown and grown.

There are many offices now, that she can sublet for other attorneys and give the opportunities there. They can do some office sharing. And, I think that business model is phenomenal. It's a phenomenal business model.

I have another attorney who's still so low and maintaining her practice after about five or six years, and doing great. Doing, absolutely, great.

Again, everyone does differently. And, the most important thing, within our community, in our careers, and our colleagues is everyone has that different journey, and it's quite alright.

I'm excited to be taking my first vacation, for two weeks, without having to check in with anyone, because I know things will be taken care of. That's what I wanted. It was a little earlier in my career, in other words, I… One of my other intentional choices was-

You're absolutely right, what you said earlier. I know that in the long run, absolutely, the business would continue to grow, if I stayed where I stayed, and where it would go. But I also was cognizant of where I was in my career. I was a second career lawyer, not in my 20s or 30s, where I want to give the investment of the next 10 or 20 years into my career. To see the fruits of my labor, and kind of balancing or having a mixture of the fruits of my labor from my first career.

Then also, how do I enhance that from this second career? You know, I just turned 50 last year, and that's the reality. While I don't want to believe it, it is what it is. So, I say, “Well, how do I envision the next 10 to 15 years of my career? And, where do I want that to go?”

As a new business owner, it is a reality that with a new business, you are in the infancy of your business. Usually, it's that 3-to-5-year sweet spot to start seeing the fruits of your labor, and profitability numbers and, all of those other metrics. I intentionally chose not to want to do that immediately, because I wanted to enjoy more fruits of my labor sooner than the 5-to-7-year period of a new business, if that makes sense. And so-

Melissa: It does. It does.

Jeanette: Yeah.

Melissa: It does make sense. This is why no one right path is perfect. I mean, it feels similar. This feels like a tangent, but it's similar. I was on a run with my husband, it was like 5 or 6 years ago, and it was so hot outside. It was just blistering hot. We had to do seven miles.

We were training for a race, and I was… It was miserable. But we went out on the run. At a certain point, I thought I had a hunch on how far we had gone. And so, I said, and he was tracking on his watch, and I said, “How far are we?” And, he said, “Four miles,” and I thought it was 5. Turns out later, I was right, but something went wrong with the watch.

Jeanette: We’re always right.

Melissa: Yeah. Yeah. He said 4 miles and I just stopped. I was like, “I'm done,” and he was like, “You can do it, Melissa. Come on, I know you can do this.” And, I was like, “Oh, I know I can do it. I just don't want to. It's not about if I can or if I can't, I'm just done. This is not fun. I'm not doing this anymore.”

We have that choice; and I liked my reasons for it. I was not mad at myself.

Jeanette:  There's no shame.

Melissa: No. “I will get my training in. And by the way, it'll probably be inside on a treadmill. In this weather, I'm not doing this right now.” So, I think it's similar with anything that we really set out to do. There is someone that would have looked at that moment, my husband being one of them, being like, “Oh, what are you doing? What are you doing? You could have just hung in there. You were over halfway there.”

In that moment, even though it feels much more trivial than what we're talking about with owning a business, it wasn't a question about my self-worth, about what I was capable of, about any of that. I was doing what I wanted to do. And, I knew that I was going to get to my end result. Meaning, I will be fully trained for that race, make no mistake. And, I'm taking a different today, this is not the path.

So, I think for with anything that we do, we have that option to be able to look at it and be like, “You know what? I'm not doing this. There is another way. I'm going to make that call.” People get to make the call to… My husband finished. He gets to make that call. We will both be satisfied with our results, in the end. We took a different… Like, I pivoted so I guess-

Jeanette: And, you were okay with that.

Melissa: Yeah.

Jeanette: You were okay with that pivot.

Melissa: As silly as it sounds, I think it really can be that simple. We put all this weight, all this pressure, we feel dread and overwhelm, and we wonder. It's good to ask yourself every, once in a while, “Wait a minute, am I still choosing this? Or, do I want to choose something different? I know the end game I'm going for, so I will meet my end game. But do I want to look into a different way to meet my endgame? And, does there need to be effort there?

Which kind of brings me to a question. I don't know how much you want to share here, but I think it'd be good for people to get a read on how you thought about it. There's a quality of life that matters to you. Money is certainly a part of that. What are you willing to say or share about the deal? Did it fit what you thought you were going to ultimately reach? Was it still going to allow you to get there financially? Or, was there compromise for you, with this deal, in terms of finances?

Jeanette: Really, the deal was very, very lucrative. Very lucrative, for me. It's already achieving better than what I would do for myself, on my own, just based on the how organized it is, and how specific it is with the metrics and the business that's coming in.

In other words, I personally was not rewarding myself, in my personal business, as I would reward myself with the deal. The opportunity was, I wouldn't be losing out, if that makes sense.

If anything, now there's even more business than before, because now you've got the internal form, also feeding the clients your way. It really allows me to be an entrepreneur, to be a business development, to have that taste and feel, and that environment, but also be able to reap the financial rewards and the financial benefits of it. You know, so I'm happy with that.

So, there's no regrets. There was no setback for me, if anything, it was much more stable. I think as a new business owner, you're making that determination… Until you are a level of stability and capital, that… You're making that determination: if you're going to pay all your expenses first and then you pay yourself last. Sometimes, as a business, when you start off, until you can actually say, “Alright, I'm putting myself on this salary and that salary, and how much is that going to be?”

The deal was very similar. Again, running your business, you're bringing it in, and certainly now there's a percentage, but the percentage is very well defined. Whereas, as the business owner, there wasn't a well-defined percentage. When I ran my practice, it was pay everything first. And then, “Oh, let me pay myself for the things that I need.” Certainly, access was there for more capital whenever I wanted it. However, it wasn't as lucrative as it is now, where things are more well-defined. If that makes sense.

Melissa: When you say percentage, like a percentage of each matter that comes in, you get, you as the owner, is that what you mean?

Jeanette: No, when I say a percentage, it’s basically what the calculation is of what is counted towards you. So, for you, that could be, as an attorney, it could be anywhere from 40-50-60%, depending on where you are on the bracket, that counts towards your income, if you will.

Melissa: Okay.

Jeanette: However, you're still on a steady income, but it's going to be calculated. And, you need to maintain that in order to substantiate what your salary is, right? And, it can go up, it can be adjusted up, and it could be adjusted down, if you're not bringing in the business. Those are the realities of…

You've got somebody else picking up all of the overhead for you, so now you've got to perform. I have to perform. I have to make sure my performance is still there. However, my personal financial circumstances are much more predictable. My personal financials are predictable, right?

That's why I'm even more attuned to what are my metrics. I still run my business like I run my practice, like I run my business. Because I have to look at what the incoming sales are, and how we're all billing, and how we are all bringing in the revenue. None of that has changed.

I think that when you come into… If you're a firm owner, and you go into an environment where you are joining your forces with another firm, who has been around for a while, those are metrics, things that you need to look at. What are you receiving? What are you giving up in return? But what are you also getting in return? And, what do you need to do to maintain that?

But now, you're looking at it more from a percentage perspective. Before, I did not, I'm going to be honest with you. It was really only a year and a half, two years of private practice, where it was not an efficient system of looking at the KPIs. The key performance indicators.

I knew what my sales numbers were, but how did I manage all of the outgoing expenses and all of the outgoing obligations? And, where was I within that metric? You know, how was I monitoring it? I appreciate having the support to be able to push me to look at that, even more, with the support of the firm.

Melissa: Yeah, yeah. Do you have weekly meetings that you're in with the partners? Or, I don't know, do you have to report in on that kind of thing?

Jeanette: There is a monthly report. There’s a monthly management report that we look at. So, I'm able to to see where we are. Where am I, relative to everyone else? Where are we, relative to the firm? Am I on track to what my goal is? Similar to the things I did, in the private firm, with your work, looking at the Quarterly. We look at it monthly and on a quarterly basis. there are numbers and metrics that we're looking at, as well.

Melissa: Yeah.

Jeanette: Certainly, this first 3-6months have been a transitionary period. So, the first 3 months, I had no metrics. Even though I did, but we were still transitioning and onboarding everyone, and transferring clients onto a new system. And, matter of fact, I think we stayed on Sprint for a little bit. What we found was, there was so much coming at us, at the same time, that I said, “Wait a minute.” I took a pause on some things to make sure we got everyone on board.

Now, I feel like we really are running. I'm super excited for the second half of the year, because it is running. The firm is… Where I saw my firm to be in the future, maybe in the next 5 years, I'm seeing it much, much sooner. I've manifested this environment, and I look forward to continuing to grow the practice, and bring in the revenue, and grow the business, even more.

Melissa: Just to give listeners a feel for what your firm was like before, when you were on your own, how many team members did you have?

Jeanette: I had three team members. I had a virtual paralegal. I had a virtual assistant, who acted as the receptionist intake person. And, I had another legal assistant, within the office, who started with me early or mid-2020, really just helping me out based on the increase in volume. She's still with me, now. She's doing a great job. My team was able to come over to the firm with me, with the exception of one. The virtual assistant, I was not able to bring onboard because of the fact that the firm already had a receptionist and intake, as well. So, that was unfortunate.

That was a reality that broke my heart. It was the first time I had to make that type of a decision and say, “Hey, you know that, unfortunately, I have to downsize because they're not bringing you onboard,” to that person. That was difficult process to go through. The other two folks are still with me, and they are part of the firm now, part of the firm staff.

Melissa: Okay, so that was the question I was going to ask is, how many could come with you? So, 2 of the 3 team members are still with you. Do you have more now, just because of the resources that are available to you because of the firm?

Jeanette: I Do. I Do. I have access to several associates. There are about five of them, where I am able to very easily say, “Hey, do you have bandwidth? I need research on this.” If something is a little more complex or more substantive, I have access to those associates. I have access to another paralegal, who speaks Spanish as well, and is able to take on some cases, depending on our overflow.

And of course, we have access to a phenomenal… She's a receptionist who, actually we're working on moving her up, to be my legal assistant, so that I can move my other legal assistant up to a paralegal. So, we'll have two paralegals, the legal assistant, and then access to the other team, the other members.

That was a major win, for me, to be able to tap into other resources. As a solo, I did use some wonderful resources, that I thought were just very helpful, and I’ll put it out there. I used law clerk, a lot. lawclerk.com, I believe it is. Where you can tap into the-

Melissa: .legal

Jeanette: lawclerk.legal, thank you. Correction. lawclerk.legal same thing, you put it out there, and someone could say, “I'll take on this assignment,” so on and so forth. Very similar to what I do with the associates in-house here. So, as a solo, you could still… Delegating was a big, big lesson, for me. You're wearing all the hats; you're doing it all yourself. I'm still on that path, to be able to learn how to delegate better, and really be more effective in delegating. We're not there yet. We're not there yet. Sometimes, I feel like, “Why am I holding on to this? I don't have to. Let it go, and let someone else bill on it or do the time for it. At least it'll get done faster.” You hold on to it... I'm trying to control the situation because I think I know best.

Melissa: Yeah. For people listening, who this is like a seed in their mind, now, they're like, “Oh, wait. Maybe, I should look into options. Maybe, this is more my path. This is what makes sense for my life.”

What would you say to someone who… They don't have any offers on the table? They don't necessarily know where to start? Yours happened pretty organically, through a conversation with a colleague. So, maybe not. But do you have anything to offer, if someone was just going to poke around and discover or explore options?

Jeanette: Absolutely. I think that one of the things that worked for me was, it was networking with other attorneys. I did a lot of that, and really just in different events. I had actually been referred by someone that I still have yet to meet. They just knew my name, based on what they knew I did. That's who gave my name to the colleague, which now, we've ended up where we are today.

So, the recommendation that I would say, is to just not be afraid to get your name out there. To have lunches with individuals. If you know you have a niche and a practice area, that someone else does not have. Or, there's another practice, or solo, or team of 2 or 3 who run a practice that you can add that value, or bring in that niche that you have, to say, “Hey, I’d like to talk to you about joining forces. What does that look like?” It starts with a conversation.

This was not my first conversation, with this idea. It started as early as mid-2020, but again, our mindset is a little bit different. We may not know, what we don't know. We don't know, what we don't know. Having my name out there, having someone who knew that I did something that they didn't do.

Or, they wanted to, maybe, do less of, because they wanted to go into another area of law or focus, or have a better focus in their practice, but still want to reap the benefits of the revenue, of that niche that you can provide as an asset, then you simply by having those conversations, and those networking events, and those dinners and lunches, people just get to know who you are.

I know that there are a lot of niche attorneys, who have specific areas. Like, some of our colleagues that practice specific ticket, for example, traffic tickets, specifically. Or, estate planning, specifically, for Special Needs families. Or, whatever the case may be, whatever that specialty is, I think there's a more attractive presentation there, because you're bringing in something that that group or that team, or that solo does not have.

I think that a conversation can start with, “What does that look like? And, how can we join resources to be able to build that and get to where you want to be a little bit faster?”

Melissa: Was the arrangement for you, was it considered an acquisition?

Jeanette: No, no. We considered it a merger. We considered it a merger. We brought my team over; we brought my firm over. That's what makes it easier to run my practice, almost like I'm still running the solo, but I can still talk to the guy next door, if I have a question, very easily. So, it wasn't considered an acquisition.

It was very unique model. Again, we merged. The announcement was that I've merged my firm with the current firm. We still continue the same. They took on the payments of my software, the things that I use, all of those things, so that was part of the merger.

But we considered it a merger to the sense where also, my clients are still mine. It's part of the liberal, “Hey, listen, after a year, if this isn't working, you can go back and take your clients with you.” That was part of the conversation, part of the deal, part of the work there. So, it's very unique. Again, unique model. I've seen other contracts that were extremely restrictive.

Melissa: It seems like the perfect deal. It does. I just tried to think of… For people who this is appealing, what would you tell them not to compromise on? Because you've seen other deals out there. And so, what would you tell them? One deal is gonna look different from the next. But what would you tell them to not compromise on? I guess, I'm just repeating the question, but I'm just trying to clarity my own mind about what the question actually is.

Jeanette: Sure, I would certainly advise not to compromise on your ability to run your practice, if that is important to you. Again, if you're coming from a solo environment, or a law firm owner environment, you have a way of doing things that you've run, that you're proud of, and you've brought your firm to success, and you've brought your firm to a certain level. So, you don't want to give that up, to a certain extent. That was extremely attractive to me; to be able to continue to run my practice, the way I rent my firm with my clients, and have that flexibility.

The second point, is the flexibility that you have as a business owner. I feel like I'm in an environment... I think I was tougher on myself, in the beginning, than anyone else was on me. I still have the flexibility to work from home, to stay home, to take a day off; I’m not fixed as an employee.

There was a deal that I read before, that came to me, that treated me as an employee: You'd have two weeks’ vacation, you'd have this, you'd have this base, and you'd have that base, and this employee. It gave up a lot of your key values that we hold as law firm owners. We have a lot of key values and visions.

When you are making such a move or a decision, you want to be able to have the courage to say, “I know what I can bring to the table. I want your resources. I want your resources to allow me to expand my business or my firm more, and here's what I can do for you.”

But you want to hold on to that flexibility as a business owner, to still go out and do your networking. Still be a rainmaker, if that's your thing. You will still be able to manage your team. If they told you, “You can't bring your team,” and this person or persons have been with you for quite some time, that might be a little bit tricky. You might want to consider how will that work for you.

This doesn't exist everywhere. But there are firms, there are a lot of firms out there, law firm owners that are joining forces and creating these umbrellas of resources, but still practicing their own individual siloed practices. But again, reaping the benefit of the joint resources.

This model is not new. It's happened before, but I'm just really happy that it's so far, so good. I can say so far, so good from what I have observed, up to now.

Melissa: It's been about, almost 6 months or 5 months?

Jeanette: I would say it's been almost 6 months. Next week will be six months.

Melissa: Okay. Yeah.

Jeanette: Feels like it's been longer.

Melissa: You can tell you are… You're really happy. You can tell.

Jeanette: Thank you.

Melissa:  You look… I mentioned this to her before we started recording, but she is glowing.

Jeanette: A new baby.

Melissa: Yeah, right. Okay, I have another question. I'm not sure if you will be able to answer it or not, but it's just a curious question. The firm that you merged with, what percentage of upside did they get? I'm thinking, one way to ask it is, what did they take from your firm? And the other way to ask it is, what is added to their firm by merging with you? I don't know how you want to answer that or what feels appropriate, but I would love to hear you speak to that.

Jeanette: Sure. Sure. I being confidential with some of the things that… One of the things that I can say is, that it's a tiered model, where if you are an associate, you've got a certain tiered model, and if you are a partner, you have a certain tiered model. So, I am currently a non-equity partner, in a path to equity partnership. That's my ultimate goal. Possibly in the next couple of years. After I prove myself as a non-equity partner. And, you take on more management activities

There is a tiered… It's a very interesting model. It's a tiered system, where let's assume if you produce 0 to 100, what you're credited is a certain percentage. I'm just gonna say 35%, for the sake of being general. If you produce 100 to 200, it's probably 35%. If you produce 200 to 300, it's 45%. If you produce 300 to 400, it's 50%. I'm just using these general numbers.

It's a tiered system where it allows you… First of all, when I started my solo firm, when I looked at my numbers from 2021, I was like, “Oh, this is cool. This is more than I'm paying myself right now.” So, that's why it was attractive to me, because I thought that it was it was a fair model to not give up so much, from other models that are out there.

There are other models out there where you gave up almost 68% of your revenue to the firm, and I think it was 32% credited to you, I saw that one time, in a prior contract, if that makes sense.

Melissa: So, 50% is your compensation. The other 50%... Let's just say you're in that tier, where it's 50%. Fifty percent would be your compensation, and 50% goes to the firm, and they pay your team out of that. Is that right?

Jeanette: Right. So, you have a set salary that's based on what your total was for the prior year, so that's going to be set. Your credit towards making that up, it could be 50%, could be 45%. You know, right now, I personally, am at 42%. Where I'm at right now, based on my 2021 numbers. 2022 numbers will likely get me up 45%. Depending on what your revenue is.

I think that's pretty fair, being that they're paying everybody else, the overhead, and everything else. When I looked at my metrics, personally, on my firm, I had to make that distinction. I was like, “Wow, my expenses were super high,” at my law firm. Personally, based on the income to the team, I had the three team members, my rent income, all of my other things that we were paying, my software. So, when you pull back and I look at what all these expenses are, I made the comparison, I thought it was very fair type of comparison. You don't have to give up both, to be able to survive, you have to look at those metrics very, very clearly.

Melissa: Do you remember what your percentage of revenue that was going towards team was? Or, just overall expenses? Do you remember what percentage of your revenue was going towards expenses?

Jeanette: I think it was something well above the 65% range. I looked… My bookkeeper is still on, we still run our management for the fact that we haven't fully wound down the old business yet. But prior, when I looked at the numbers for 2021, I think it was something like 70%, probably, went to the overall overhead. And, also to my team.

Melissa: Tell me if you agree with this. That's not super high. But you don't have to deal with that. You're jaded at this point, because truly, tactically, you think about… If you're 30% profit margin, or net profit, then yeah, that's pretty good. There's a lot of people who their expenses are more than that. But because you were newer… So, it's not like… Was your salary included in that, expenses?

Jeanette: I can't remember, I apologize. If I look at… It was not. It was not because all I took, as a firm owner, and I don't recommend this as… Well, to have a stability factor, all I took was shareholder distributions, in the very beginning, until I salaried myself last year, towards the end of the year, so that I can substantiate all that, and of course, get the taxes handled.

When I look at that number, no, I was not a part of that. I would just take it afterwards.

Melissa: Yeah.

Jeanette:  After I made sure everyone else was paid. As a newer firm owner, that's what you do. You pay everyone else and you say, “Okay, I'll distribute this to myself now, at the end. It's not a great feeling when you know you're working really, really hard, and you're saying, “Well, I'm paying myself last. How do I make sure that I can become part of this reaping it? Reaping the benefits of this?”

I remember the very beginning, I would get excited with my first case and the retainer, but towards the end, I wasn't getting excited with those retainers, because I knew what the obligations were. And so, yes, I closed this deal, but I just knew I had to keep the wheels turning to ensure that all of the obligations would be met.

Melissa: Yeah, yeah. Now that's good. I was asking too, because for where you worried that's not too bad. It's still a lot to deal with, though. Like, you weren't out of the weeds. You were still going to have to get it to the place that you wanted to get it, to where everything just felt like it was right where you wanted it. And, yeah, you don't have to do that.

That's what I really want for people to understand is that… We've said it a few different ways, like this, but you could have gotten it to exactly where you wanted it, but that was not what you chose. And that, is such a beautiful thing. Look at how you're glowing. You're getting ready to take a two-week vacation. I mean, it's just, it's really beautiful. The life you've created for yourself is exactly the life that you wanted to create for yourself, and you're still, you're just getting started.

Jeanette: Yeah.

Melissa: Yeah. I think that's just such a good example. I think in this space, law firm owners are listening to podcasts, and soaking up all the information, and no one is talking about other options. No one is talking about a different path forward, as a law firm owner, and what that could look like. This is new. It kind of feels like I'm fumbling around with this conversation; trying to figure out what to ask, and how to ask, and what will be helpful to listeners.

I think it's an important conversation to bring to light. It's not just that you have to own and get this thing the way that you want it, so that you have the life that you want to have, with you as the owner, building this firm, even if you've a partner. That siloed approach to the growth of your firm and lifting this thing off the ground. Then, raising that. It's just you, and you alone on that journey. It's totally possible.

But that's the only way that it’s talked about in this industry. That's the only thing; that's the path. I just love… There was something that I loved about hearing that this is the path you took. Because I could tell, after having some interactions with you, this was the right way to go. This was your right path. I don't know much about that path. I don't know how to advise people down that path. I mean, I could help them figure out what they need to do to get the information that they need to get. But I'm not the expert on that.

I just don't want to be a part of that one-track mind conversation for law firm owners. Like, listen, there's a perfect example, right here on this podcast, of someone who has chosen something different, and it is exactly what she wanted and needed for her world. So, don't get caught up in all of the podcasts that are out there. And, all the coaches that are out there, and all the people out there telling you what you should do. No one's giving you this option. I don't know how to give this option, other than just shine light on people who have done it. And, it's an option. You don't have to-

Jeanette: Certainly. Yeah, yeah, definitely an option. Definitely. You have to be open to what comes your way. You have to be open to the options that you're in. You have to, also, still be grateful and practice gratitude where you are, even though there were the times that we felt like the volume was extremely high, or it was coming in very quickly. We found a way to manage it, for sure. We absolutely found a way to manage it.

We were finding a way to… Trying to let go of the control and delegating more. So, all of those things were happening very, very well. I feel like it was a combination of being where I was, and doing the best I could with what I had, and a little bit of luck in my path. Because the opportunity came to me relatively randomly. I wasn't looking. I wasn't seeking. I wasn't out there trying to make a change, right away.

But I knew that I wanted more for my practice. I knew that I wanted more resources, I wanted more assistance with certain things. I wanted more. I focused on where I would see my payroll being run, how I would see my assistants running, what type of resources would we have?

It's the wildest thing, but I really feel like this is where I'm at right now. Is it forever? I have no idea. I have no idea. There's no such thing as forever. You practice being where you are, and staying present where you are, and doing the best you can.

Are there inefficiencies? Heck, yeah, there are. It's a new firm, we're bringing in our clients, we're still trying to get our calendaring system backup to play, myself and the assistant. But guess what? We're having our team meetings, we're identifying what needs to work, what's not working, what we need to fix, what's working great.

Again, my vision continues. That's why I say I'm so excited about the second half of this year, because I feel like the first half of this year we were building. We were building the house, actually we moved into a new house and needed a lot a little bit of refurbishing, right? So, now we've built that, and we've remodeled. I'm excited to continue to be in that new house towards the end of the year.

But I'm excited to even bring in more revenue, by way of the new things that we're implementing, and still having the mindset of the law firm owner. To be able to bring in the business, and continue to “sell,” continue to bring in new clients, but now, in a much better way.

So, a lot of the things that Mastery Group and Sprint has brought to us, to me, continues. Monday Map / Friday Wrap, all of those principles and concepts are still important. If I look at what are my metrics at the end of the month? What's the metrics for the quarter? What do I have left in my goal, as we do our quarterly review? And, how do I calculate that…How does that break down into my calculation on a monthly basis? And, am I meeting that?

Yeah, so I'm excited, again, for the second half of the year, but still running things like I'm a solo firm. But, again, there's other people that are running that, that are steering the boat, and I can still give a little bit of my vision, but I don't have to. I don't have to steer the boat. I'm fine with that. I'm perfectly, personally, fine with not having to steer the boat. And, I think the courage to be vulnerable and the courage to come to that conclusion, not by way of what you think others will think, based on whether or not you stayed in your firm or not. Once you drop that, you can make better decisions that are better for you. And, better for your vision. So-

Melissa: Yeah. So good. You mentioned, before we push the record, that you were so excited. This kind of goes along with what you were just saying, that you're so excited for the last half of the year. You're getting ready to go to the Dominican Republic-

Jeanette: Yes.

Melissa: For a vacation. The last half of the year, you're so excited for. I mean, the smile on your face is… Your joy is palpable. Like your energy, you're just energized. It feels like you're energized. And, it's so great. You mentioned also, before we pushed record, that you're coming back to Mastery Group, later, August or whatever.

Jeanette: Heck yeah!

Melissa: Why? I'm curious, because we do have a couple of other members who, they're running their own business inside of a firm, similar to what you have set up. And, I think it'd be helpful for people, who own their own firms outright, or have a similar setup to you. Why was Mastery Group valuable to the point, where once the dust settles, you're coming back in?

Jeanette: That is an awesome question. I have to say, it really comes with number one, I’ll tell you flat-out, I miss having the conversations, once a week, with my other colleagues, that are centered around growth, centered around professional growth, personal growth, the growth of your business/practice, however we may define it.

The reason why I have that yearning to come back, even though I'm part of a firm, is because my practice is a silo for its own solo practice. So, when I look at my management report, every month, I'm looking at that number. It's being tiered against what the budget is or what the goal is. And if I'm short, what are the things that I need to do? I feel like it's just more of the accountability, the camaraderie, the mindset to be able to stay motivated, within that space of business growth.

That's the key thing there. It's the key. It's business growth. How do I… The Mastery Group is about growing your business. It's about growing your business as a law firm owner, and looking at the metrics, and looking at the numbers, and what is your why? You have a lot of beautiful facets to Mastery Group.

Even within the firm, those principles are still relevant, fully relevant. Even if I'm part of the firm, I'm still going to look at my metrics, I still want to count my numbers, I still want to look at how many consults I'm having. What's my closing ratio? How many of those consults are coming to clients? What am I bringing in, my retainers?

If I have a goal of ultimately, and if I'm a law firm owner, I'm already an equity partner, right? But if I have a goal of being coming, an equity partner within the firm, those are important. Those are metrics that are important. And, I have to look at those numbers, continue to understand those numbers.

Or, if I ever were to go… To have my firm again, doesn't matter. Wherever the future goes, being an attorney with the focus of growing your business, will put me in a position where I can ensure that my whys are going to be fulfilled. Why am I doing all this? Where is it going? Also, continuing to learn personally and professionally being a part of that team.

Melissa: One thing that strikes me is, maybe now more than ever, you're in a position where technically you could do this on your own. So, coming into Master Group, is the facilitation valuable? Like me pulling out of your brain certain things?

Jeanette: Absolutely. I think that self-motivation is great, but when you are accountable, it's even better. When you have a third person that you're accountable for, that puts your mindset to do it, to take those steps of whatever activity is that we're doing; whether it be our Monday Map / Friday Wrap. I do it in my head sometimes. Do I do it the way we used to? Not really, because, before, we had homework to do.

This brings us back to having that accountability. I think that when you're building or growing a firm or any other project, accountability is really the key to allow yourself to, not only, share ideas, share other experiences, but just stay motivated.

Melissa: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree. I am curious of other people's takes. I think this kind of work is really important work. To stay conscious about what's going on with the numbers, what's going on with the firm, deciding, making key decisions about priorities, etc. Sometimes, it's hard to efficiently or effectively, get it out of your brain in a way that you can actually execute on it.

Sometimes, just having someone ask the right questions, and pin you down for an answer. If there's an answer, that's kind of difficult to get to, whether it's math or not, it's easy to like, “Why? I'm going to have to come back to this.” But if someone's pinning you down, it's like, “No, no, no. What is that answer?” Then it's like, “Okay, okay. No. We're going to figure this out. We're going to get this done. We're going to tie this up with a bow, so that we can keep going.”

So, I identify with what you just shared. I'm glad that you feel that way. That's my hope. My hope and my goal for people that come in, and it's like, “Yeah, let's do this. This is where the rubber meets the road. So, let's dial this in.”

Jeanette: I appreciate, within your program, the homework, or rather the focus on, “Alright, what's your goal for this quarter? What's your goal for the year? How do you break that down into the quarters? How do you break that down into the months?” Certainly, absolutely, you're right. We can do this ourselves. We know what we need to do. We know we need to exercise every day. But if you have a trainer with you, you have to show up for, guess what? You're going to show up for that trainer a little bit more than you may show up for yourself.

That's what this program does for me, or did for me. Now, after digesting more, and taking that break, and using a lot of what I learned, to say, “You know what? This is a trainer I want to have with me for a bit, to continue to grow my business, and to continue to grow personally, and for the firm.

Melissa: That means the world. Thank you. Thank you.

Jeanette: Yeah, you can pay me later.

Melissa: Yeah, exactly. Well, thank you for taking time to come on, and chat, and share. And, to just be the first voice I've heard, in this realm, to start a conversation around what it looks like to not do it, the path, that most are doing it. What does it look like to, maybe, do it differently?

Thank you for being willing to share your experience. And, if there's any questions, or if people want to reach out, would you prefer they send them to us and we could filter them, or do you want them to reach out to you?

Jeanette: Oh, yeah, no. I mean, people can reach out to me directly. Absolutely. I can give my email. jmora@USLegalTeam.com. So, it’s jmora@USLegalTeam.com

Melissa: Any dashes or anything, in there?

Jeanette: No dashes, no dashes.

Melissa: J Mora is J-M-O-R-A. We'll put that in the show notes for people if they’d like to-

Jeanette:  Yeah, yeah.

Melissa: Well, that's great! Man. Thank you. I really appreciate your time.

Jeanette: Thank you. I appreciate you. And, I appreciate you taking the time and the opportunity, and giving me the opportunity to come here and chat with you. This is awesome. Thank you so much.

Melissa: Oh, thank you.

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