The Hidden Patterns Holding You Back from Strategic Decision Making with Tara Gronhovd

Tara: So what happens when a law firm owner who has control over most aspects of their life and they are an expert has to learn something new?

Melissa: I mean, some of them are open, but it's not their, it's not their comfort.

Tara: No.

Melissa: So then the soundtracks come in.

Tara: So then the soundtracks come in. And there's no judgment in that. It is a human quality.

Melissa: Absolutely.

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Melissa: Hi, everyone. Welcome back to this week's episode of The Law Firm Owner Podcast. I am here again with my friend, Tara Gronhovd. Thank you so much for being here. All the way in Denver. You've already been on, we've recorded one.

Tara: Yeah.

Melissa: And we said it was very exciting.

Tara: This is why we're in the same jacket. Yes.

Melissa: And same. And it's exciting that you're here, you're in the workspace, you're in Denver, but truly, this is pretty remarkable to be able to sit across the table and have a conversation. So thank you for being the first guest.

Tara: Absolutely. I'm so honored that I get to be. That feels pretty special.

Melissa: Oh, it is. I'm just kidding. Hey, okay, the other topic I wanted to talk to you about before you head back is the something you led at the Shift Workshop as well, or the conference, and it was about, it was a segment on what are you good at. I didn't really know we were getting into with it.

Tara: Yeah.

Melissa: But you, the way you framed that section about, you know, kids answering this question have no problem.

Tara: Yeah.

Melissa: So anyway, you had us answer the question. I can, I can share what I remember. Yeah, will you take us through it? I can share what I remember that stood out to me, but I would love to hear what stood out to you.

Tara: I want you, have you, so I'd start by just asking people, have you been around a group of 7-year-olds lately? I have a 7-year-old and you better not ask him what he thinks because he will tell you the honest truth. So 7-year-olds are both terrifying and hilarious because they'll just say whatever. They give zero.

Melissa: Yeah. Yeah.

Tara: Yeah. Yeah. And so, if I ask them this question, what are you good at? The, what is the energy like in that room? Like, what are people, what are those kids doing? They're usually excited. The energy goes way up. They can't wait to tell you. They're clamoring. They're kind of competing. Well, I did this, and you did that. You know, I've done this with a group of 7-year-olds and I heard everything from ninja skills to nose picking. And, you know, and but they'll tell you, right?

Melissa: Yeah.

Tara: And the energy is good. But then if I go into a room full of adults and I ask, what are you good at? What is the energy going to be like?

Melissa: Shy or closed up.

Tara: Yeah, the energy closed. Like I've done this many times, it just drops. And not in a good way. Like just, don't, don't, don't look at me. You know, vibe, like, please don't make eye contact with me. And I might, depending on the group, I might hear one or two things people feel comfortable saying they're good at, but for the most part, people won't share in a group either, right? What they're good at. And, you know, so what happens between childhood and adulthood that changes, completely changes our perspective on that question and completely changes how we want to answer it. It goes from exciting to answer to awkward to answer.

And when I facilitate this with groups of people, we spend time talking about what happens. But then at the event, I said, I said, now we're going to practice. And I set a timer and I made everyone write for a full minute. When I do it with smaller groups, I do it for 2 minutes. And I have, I tell you, write everything you can think of that you're good at. And if you're listening and you're not driving and you're somewhere with a pen, I want you to stop, pause, hit the timer for 2 minutes and write everything you can think of you're good at. And my guess is almost none of your listeners will do it because no one wants to.

Melissa: Mhm.

Tara: So when they're in a room with me, they have to because, you know, but because they have to. That's why I like what I do because I get to make people do things.

Melissa: Yeah.

Tara: But, but then, and then I have them count and almost never do we get more than like 5 to 7 things on a list. But for 2 minutes, there's plenty of time. If you were writing about a loved one, you would have had a lot more things on that list. And there's and then we talked about like what are the common broken soundtracks that I see with people when they talk about why that was hard for them.

Melissa: Okay, so that's what, that's what stuck out to me. I don't think I knew where you were going with this when we started the exercise. So I wrote things down. I think I had 7, which you said 5 to 7 is like the average.

Tara: Yeah.

Melissa: And the stuff I wrote down, I don't know if it was before or after you mentioned the soundtracks, probably after because I started thinking, what's my soundtrack about that one? What's my soundtrack about that one? And there were some that when I looked at it, I was like, am I the best? I don't know. Like just like maybe I should cross that one off. Like What?

Tara: You were second guessing. By the way, I never, I never said you had to show it to anybody.

Melissa: Right. Yeah. You know?

Tara: Yeah.

Melissa: Totally. Exactly. No one was seeing my paper. But and there were certain things that I put the I am the best at this thing.

Tara: Yes.

Melissa: And then so I was just, the ones where the soundtrack was broken, I could distill it down to basically not enough something. It's not the best because it's not enough, uh, or it's not the best because I don't put in enough, like there's always a not enough thing.

Tara: I could be better.

Melissa: Yeah. I could be better. I mean, that just, just exactly. Just I could be better. But I could, I could pinpoint things with in work. Like there was a couple things in work where I think I'm really good. But you're ask, I think, oh, that's interesting. I think I made it about the best, even though you said what are you good at?

Tara: Yeah. So a lot of people do that. That is totally what I did.

Melissa: Yeah.

Tara: So there's 3 very common broken soundtracks. One is I'm not the best at that, so I can't write it down.

Melissa: I definitely did that. I didn't realize right now that that was not what you asked. Yeah.

Tara: I asked, what are you good at?

Melissa: Yeah.

Tara: And good is kind of subjective. So how hard are you on you?

Melissa: Right.

Tara: The second thing I hear a lot is, I'm not as good at that as this other person. Like I know someone better at that than me, so I can't write it down.

Melissa: Right.

Tara: Or sometimes a variation of that is I was told once I wasn't good at that, even though I really like it and maybe I am good at it.

Melissa: Yeah.

Tara: I'm afraid that they would, so the third thing is, uh, I, what would they think? Who's they? They weren't going to see your paper.

Melissa: Right.

Tara: So all of this inner rustle is happening in our head. All of the time.

Melissa: Yeah. It's noise.

Tara: It's noise. We have 60,000 thoughts a day. 85% of them are negative and about that many are the same. And so we have these negative neural pathways in our brain telling us that we're terrible and beating us down.

Melissa: Yeah.

Tara: And there is real legitimate work to do to rewire our brains.

Melissa: Yeah.

Tara: It's funny that when we did that in the group, there's 350 people and when I had everyone raise their hand about how many, and the people who had the highest, one of them was a client of mine. And the first time I ever did that with her, it was 5 to 7.

Melissa: So many. Yeah. Oh, wow.

Tara: And now she's at 20.

Melissa: That's so amazing.

Tara: When she did, when she did that exercise.

Melissa: Yeah. Yeah. It is funny. You do draw a blank. Like you might think of a few things, but I didn't just rattle off 7.

Tara: Yeah.

Melissa: I mean, I rattled off like 3.

Tara: Right?

Melissa: I mean, one of them, which this, this is a little embarrassing to say, one of them, my first one I wrote down was hugging. I, I am, I am…

Tara: You are a good hugger. the best at hugging. I just got a really good hug when I got here.

Melissa: I am. Yeah. Not, not like it's not too much, it's not too little. It's like a proper hug. I'm a good hugger.

Tara: A Goldilocks hugger. So like I was like, come on, what else is going through? So I had to think down and it took a bit. I mean, it was kind of.

Melissa: I actually love that you wrote hugger. I almost regret saying that, but okay.

Tara: Because knowing your strengths and relator, I actually love that hugger was your first thing you thought of because people are important to you and your relationships are important and so I also love looking at what's on people's lists because there's interesting things that that you can interpret off that list of things that you think you're good at.

Melissa: And just so I could, everybody knows, I'm not like, I don't hug everybody every time I see them. That's not one of those weird things.

Tara: I'm an appropriate hugger. Like I'm the best at hugging. I said Goldilocks.

Melissa: So anyway, the reason this struck me is because I think when I looked at it at some point in your conversation, it was like the theme and I put in quotes, "not enough." Like all the things that I was like, should I scratch that off? I'm not the best, which by the way, that wasn't your question, so crazy. Uh, I, it was like, what is that soundtrack? Because I don't feel like I have a soundtrack that's like, I am not enough. Like I don't, I don't, I don't identify with that.

Tara: Yeah.

Melissa: But clearly…

Tara: it's subconscious.

Melissa: Yeah, there's some subconscious things within, within elements of my existence. I don't know if it's everything, you know, but it's, but it's pervasive enough and then Jon Acuff, who sort of follows, you guys did such a good job of like teeing each other up for the talks.

Tara: Yeah.

Melissa: I was amazing. I just like an element of how tight in you guys were and locked in. Um, but he picked up on that and used it in his soundtracks talk. And you just realize how affected you really are by soundtracks that are unconscious. You know, I think, I think I just recorded another podcast about my learnings from that day and I think I defined it so I should know it, which is a soundtrack is a thought that you've thought so many times you it's part of your identity.

Tara: Is that how he said it? I don't remember how he said it.

Melissa: Just like the definition was good because it was like, it's a, it, it you've played it so many times, it's a part of your identity. There's something and I thought it's so interesting. There's all these little ways that you just, it's, they're sneaky.

Tara: They are sneaky.

Melissa: And you almost need exercises like that to realize that they're there.

Tara: 100%. Especially if you're not coaching, because in coaching, I catch people in their soundtracks all the time.

Melissa: Definitely. Because and I am a coach of sorts and you are a coach in your own lane. I know this stuff. I've been eating and breathing it. And then you still don't see it. You always have your own blind spots. So, it was really, I, I wanted to have you talk about this here because I'm just thinking of the law firm owners that I get to work with, that are, they all deal with this and people, lawyers intimidate people. They walk around, they're super smart, they've done a lot, they have businesses of their own, the ones I

Tara: They like being smart, too. They like being the expert, which there's nothing wrong with that, but they like being the expert.

Melissa: They are control freaks. They are the like, they, they are dialed humans.

Tara: Yeah. So what happens when they have to learn something new?

Melissa: Right. Yeah, okay, that's a good point.

Tara: So what happens when a law firm owner who has control over most aspects of their life and they are an expert has to learn something new?

Melissa: I mean, some of them are open, but it's not their, it's not their comfort.

Tara: No.

Melissa: So then the soundtracks come in.

Tara: So then the soundtracks come in. And there's no judgment in that. It is a human quality. I was just, um, we were just teaching our grounded leadership cohort, uh, soundtracks a couple weeks ago. And I, I shared, I've been working on my soundtracks with intention for 3 years. That's when how long I've been working, we've been working with his work. And they still are there. So you can't define success as them going away. Success is noticing them quickly and then knowing how to turn them down.

Melissa: Yeah.

Tara: Like I just had something, a really cool thing happened, um, a really exciting thing happened, and immediately my soundtracks went through the roof. And I knew they were there. I'm like, oh, why can't I just enjoy this cool thing that happened? You know? Um, and I, I, I got myself there. It took me about 12 hours.

Melissa: Yeah. And probably 3 years ago, it would have taken you 3 weeks.

Tara: Or longer. Yeah. Or I would have walked away from the opportunity and the cool thing.

Melissa: Yeah.

Tara: Because I would have talked myself out of the cool thing that had happened.

Melissa: Right. Yeah. It really, they, it drives everything. I, I talk a lot about, you know, what is going through your mind, your perspective, your thoughts. It, it affects how you feel. That affects the kinds of actions you'll take, and that will affect the results that you get. I, I really do believe that. There's exceptions to every rule, but generally speaking, I think that's something that's a good way to reflect on how things are going. But the soundtracks conversation and was a very good inlet to that work and to seeing things even, even clearly, more clearly, I think. And your talk about what are you good at and having to write that down and seeing how many you could get in 2 minutes.

Tara: Yep.

Melissa: I mean, that's a good exercise for anybody listening. You could just put a timer on for 2 minutes and write down what are you good at?

Tara: Yeah.

Melissa: And then try not to have a filter. Yeah, just go for it. And then as you go back, and the reason I went back is because you made us partner with someone. So I was partnered with Mika on my team. So I was saying it and I was like, I mean, well, I was hesitating to say it out loud. And so then started talking about soundtracks. I write down like, what is my soundtrack about each of these? And then the ones that were broken, it was all like it's a not enough something. And I bet that everybody sort of has a pattern.

Tara: Yeah.

Melissa: Like, what's the pattern?

Tara: Right.

Melissa: And just being aware of it is enough to just think, oh, I'm going to…

Tara: For sure. And then we talked about how your strengths can actually help you catch your patterns.

Melissa: Totally, yes. Exactly. Yeah. I know it was a quick sort of overview for people, but I mean, why would you say this is important? Why did you bring it up?

Tara: Well, I brought it up because I wanted people to see that, uh, our mindset impacts even simple things like being able to say something we're good at. Like, what is wrong with saying we're good at something? And if we can't say we're good at something, we're not going to learn, we're not going to grow. We have to be humble enough to recognize what we are and aren't. And also it was to highlight the fact that there were probably at least 3 broken soundtracks that showed up for all 350 people in the room.

Melissa: Mhm.

Tara: Through that one exercise. And it was a pretty simple thing, right?

Melissa: Yeah. Yeah.

Tara: So also, we have to dig deeper to understand, like you said, like that not enough, you don't feel that in your kind of front of your life, but clearly there's something operating in a through line in your like, you know, operating…

Melissa: Yeah.

Tara: In your brain.

Melissa: Yeah.

Tara: And so sometimes it takes a little bit of work to get awareness around what those broken soundtracks are and how they might be holding you back.

Melissa: Yeah. Mine were a lot around action, too, which is classic for me. Like, I haven't done enough. I don't have enough under my belt. I don't, I haven't studied that enough to say that I'm the best, which was not your question, which was not what your best.

So anyway, um, yeah, I think I wanted to talk to you about this because I know that the people I'm lucky enough to work with, they, they all have this, too, in, in their own way. And, you know, you asked earlier in the other conversation that we had, like, what holds people back? We were talking about what emotional well-being, what holds people back from being able to make strategic decisions. And I think this is sort of plays into that.

Tara: Yeah.

Melissa: It's there are, there's sentences of doubt and fear that exist. You cannot hear. Like you don't hear them, but they are running the game. And finding ways to be in tune with them, and this exercise felt like a really great way to be in tune with them, so that you just start to wake up to, I guess that is part of me somewhere. Like somewhere in there is I believe that. And if that's true, then you just start to just awareness.

Tara: Absolutely. If that's true, if you can't write down that you're good at that thing, what does that hold you back from? How does it hold you back from not even leveraging your strengths to their full capacity?

Melissa: Exactly. From making the strategic decisions that you should be making. Right? Yeah.

Tara: Yeah. How many owners do you know say, like I know a lot of owners who say, well, I'm not strategic, so I'm not going to take time to do that because it's uncomfortable.

Melissa: Yeah.

Tara: But it's because they're telling themselves, you know, but anyone can follow a process and get there.

Melissa: Yes, exactly. Thank you.

Tara: Thank you. So fun.

Melissa: Right? Yeah. Yeah.

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