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Melissa Shanahan

#153: Be On Your Best Game as an Employer with Molly McGrath (Part 1)

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Are you a law firm owner who is frustrated with hiring and training staff, or a lack of skill among your team to take your business to the next level? Are you an employee who wants to do a great job in your position but feels unclear, overworked, or ill-equipped to make it happen?

Since 1997, Hiring & Empowering Solutions are the only legal consultants who have sat in both seats: the employers and the employees. Molly McGrath of Hiring & Empowering Solutions is on the show this week to address the pain points experienced on both sides, and to show all law firm owners what it takes to cultivate the kind of employer/employee relationship that has your staff connected to your vision and invested in the firm.

Listen in this week for part one of Melissa’s conversation with Molly McGrath. On this episode, they’re diving into the secret to employee retention. Molly is showing us what matters in the long haul when it comes to training your team, the importance of truly investing in and empowering your team, and how to start putting this into practice.

Show Notes:

What You’ll Discover:

How Molly came to work with and serve law firm owners.

The 2 sides of Molly’s practice.

Why Molly believes administrative staff are the glue that holds a law firm together.

The nuts and bolts of key skills that Molly helps train employees on.

Why employee retention is the crux of everything.

How to invest in the employer/employee relationship.

The difference between understanding what it means to empower your team and putting it into practice.

Featured on the Show:

Create space, mindset, and concrete plans for growth. Start here: Velocity Work Monday Map.

Hiring & Empowering Solutions: Website | Podcast | Blog

• Grab Molly’s Employee Growth Plan!

Law Firm Admin Bootcamp

• Molly's How to Hire with Confidence - Interview Questions

• Molly's Quarterly Planning Session Agenda

• Molly's Sample Incentive Comp Plan

• Molly's Sample Weekly Team Meeting Agenda

• Molly's The Employee Review Must Die

• Molly's Work Breakdown Structure

• Molly's Weekly Check-in Worksheet

Influence: Science and Practice by Robert Cialdini

My Stroke of Insight: A Brain Scientist’s Personal Journey by Jill Bolte Taylor

What Does She DO All Day? - Molly McGrath

Brené Brown

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Leave me a review in Apple Podcasts or anywhere else you listen!

Full Episode Transcript:

Download Transcript PDF

I'm Melissa Shanahan, and this is the Velocity Work podcast, Episode #153.

This podcast is for attorneys who are running their own firms. We explore tactics, tools, and stories related to pushing past simply lawyering well and into building a successful firm. Working in your firm and working on your business are two very different things. This podcast focuses on the latter.

Hi guys, welcome to this week's episode. I am thrilled to bring you this conversation, it's Part 1, we're going to do a Part 2 for you guys, this is with Molly McGrath of You should check her out. She serves law firm owners only, and as you'll learn in this episode, she has a couple sides of the coin that she really focuses on that help law firm owners, and oh my gosh, both are so valuable.

The first we talk about thoroughly today, and the second we need to have a Part 2 about, because I think there's much more room to dig in to helping law firm owners be better with employee retention, and then also she helps with hiring. So we'll talk about that, recruiting and hiring. So we'll talk about that in Part 2.

But this is a really great conversation I think you all will enjoy; there's value in it no matter how small or big your firm is, there are golden nuggets in here that will serve you for now. The gift that keeps on giving are the things she talks about, the stuff that matters for the long hall and doing things right. So enjoy today's episode.

All right everyone. I'm so excited that you get to be a part of this conversation with me and Molly McGrath of Molly, welcome.

Molly: Oh, Melissa, thank you for having me, I'm so excited.

Melissa: Oh my gosh, I am pumped. I have been waiting for this. I know we just sort of got this together, but ever since I met you, I met you at the AV tech show in person finally.

Molly: Finally.

Melissa: I know. And since then, we had lunch, and I've gotten to know you more, and every time I meet you and get to have a conversation with you, the more excited I am for the next one.

Molly: Me too.

Melissa: So I'm really pumped that you get to be here and talking to my peeps today. I mean, first, would you mind just sharing with everyone a little bit about what you do as a service for law firm owners? And feel free to share any part of your story, like how you got here to what you're doing.

Molly: Yes. Again, thank you for having me. So I started my company in 2008, which is a fantastic time to launch a new company, and it really happened by accident. Like everybody will say to me, "Why lawyers? Are you a lawyer? Why are you working with lawyers?" And it really, my backstory, if you will, it's 1997, I left my hometown, Buffalo, New York, came to Denver, and had an opportunity leave my job, have a one year personal leave of absence, come back and still have my job in City Hall in Buffalo, New York.

And I answered an ad in the paper when people actually did that. I went to the classified section, and my first interview and my first job was with National Organization of Estate Planning Attorneys, and immediately I fell in love, by and large, with estate planning and elder law attorneys. Back then there weren't many elder law attorneys, and just really went to all the conferences, back then we were constantly doing collegiums and summits and precursors and programs.

And in between the sessions, we would have coffee breaks, lunch breaks, dinner breaks, and I would be having to the one side of me the attorneys, and they would say, "It's hard to find good people, it's hard to keep people. Nobody wants to work." This is back in '97. Right, you think nobody wants to work in 2020, 2022, that was a conversation consistently happening. Business would be great but for the employees, nobody cares as much as I..."

Then I would turn to the right side, and there would be the employees, and they would say, "He or she is a control freak. They won't let me help them. I see how stressed out they are. They don't trust anyone. They don't know how to delegate.  I don't know what I'm doing all day I feel terrible because I know I could be stepping up and leading and doing so much more." And through that, I am, by nurture/nature a deeply curious person, I'm also a caretaker; I'm a two on the Enneagram, I am very much a helper. I hear a need, and I am steadfast and unrelenting on finding the solution.

So through that, it just slowly but surely, I would have attorneys say to me, because we had a coaching program back then, "Hey, can you help me hire? How do I clone you? How do I get someone like you?" I'm like, "I don't know what I'm doing, I'm not doing anything that's that great or special," until I realized I really had a superpower for having my boss's back and understanding how to give them faith and confidence to delegate. And through that, I became very, very, very passionate about hiring.

So one side of my business is we do flat fee retain search hiring and staffing, that comes with a 90 day on boarding and coaching program for the attorney and the employee, to set everyone up for success, and whoever's involved in the training. And then the second side of my practice is that I have a coaching program specifically for administrative staff. There is no shortage of CLEs and programs for paralegals, for attorneys, for CEOs, for entrepreneurs, you can throw a stone and find a program.

There's nothing for my perspective, the most important job in the firm, which is your client service coordinator, your intake coordinators, your legal administrative assistants, the people that are typically floundering, but I believe the glue of the program, so I have a 12 week boot camp, and we're going to be launching our next month about three and a half weeks from now, and it's for law firm admin assistants.

Melissa: Wow. Very cool. I get to learn more about you and your business through this conversation. I can already tell I'm going to have a ton of questions, just out of curiosity that hopefully will be helpful for everyone listening. How long have you had the focus on the administrative training, administrative side?

Molly: I have had that focus since, the first program we had launched was in 1999, so in '97 when I started with that organization, we really realized very quickly that there was a need for coaching and personal professional development for attorneys. Well, back then, coaching wasn't even a street term, really. And so we're lucky to have an amazing attorney that had been trained by a strategic coach, landmark education, S, all the programs that were out there at the time and he was a practicing attorney and a member of that organization.

I was assigned to become his practice development, help him get this coaching program off the ground. Well, we launched the first program in '98, and there were 77 attorneys that showed up. We were shocked. We wanted 20. So we saw a need, and that was back then when we went to a conference every 90 days and they would have a two day coaching program.

And through that, it was interesting because I was just supposed to be the little assistant to help him with the program, so to speak, and people come up to the mic, they would share what's working, what's not working, where they're jammed up, where they need a breakthrough, and every single firm owner that came up there was, "The employees. The employees. The employees. The employees." And my boss at the time, my mentor, my coach, turns to me and says to me, "You gotta start a key assistant."

And back then they called them key assistants. So we started our very first key assistant program. The attorneys would be in one conference room, and we would take the key assistants in a breakout room and train them at the exact same time. So that was the first. Then we went into different organizations and provided that program for them.

Then it kind of involved into the team empowerment academy, and then the pandemic hit, and I realized that the word "empowerment" was just blasted everywhere, and the result was confusion, and I was hearing from attorneys, "I don't want an employee staff member because I don't want them marching into my office asking for a raise every time they come out of your program." So I really voiced the customer matters and realize that it really has evolved now into this program.

Melissa: Wow. Very cool. You and I haven't talked about that, but I love that take and that focus on the administrative staff, and you said that you believed them to be the glue, actually, of all the workings. How true is that? I mean, if that part isn't going well, it doesn't matter how good your practitioners are. Things will fall apart.

Molly: Yeah, it's so true. I can't tell you, people that will cal me, and I'll say, "Okay, great, talk to me about the front of your house, the person that's answering your phone." I mean, listen up, guys. We all know we call businesses every single day, and when you call in 20 seconds you are making a firm decision whether you're going to continue the conversation with this business, but at the pit of your subconscious mind you already know if you're going to hire them or not.

And if it's a no, there's going to be a heck of a lot of convincing to turn that no into a hell yes. So I believe that's a very most important position because if they're not doing a great job of making the clients feel acknowledged, feel validated, feel understood, feel like they're safe in the right place, your job as the attorney is absolutely irrelevant because you have no one to meet with because your calendar is empty because you're treating that position like, quote unquote, "just a receptionist."

Melissa: Yes. Yes. Do you only work with law firm owners?  

Molly: Yes.

Melissa: Okay. I thought so. Just clarifying. What are some of the things like nuts and bolts that you dig in with and you really help train on? And maybe you just said some of them, like really hearing the client understand, making the client feel understood, so you teach skills that give them the ability for that to be the case?  

Molly: Yeah, that's the part that's missing a lot of times for employees, is even the confidence, you know, they treat their role if they don't have a script, they're paralyzed, realizing their value in that position, how to understand cancellations and reschedules. How to understand objections. How to frame every single solitary word they say to the existing client or perspective client. Not, "When do you want to come in?"  

But you handle it in regard to, "Fantastic, great, our next opening is at this time or this time, which would work for you?" Versus so often client service coordinators will be like, "Oh, that day doesn't work, the attorney is on vacation." And the client's like, "Really? The last time I called the attorney was on vacation. Does the attorney ever work?" So you're always speaking to the perspective client in a way that makes a difference for them.

I talk to them about running conversion rates, doing follow up in regard to managing the life cycle of the file and in regards to the calendar. So go the calendar, so go the cash flow. What it means to have your attorney's back. How to come with constant proposed solutions versus constant problems. The hardest, hardest, hardest thing that I have in training employees, both legal admin and at the front of the house by and large, is for them to really, truly understand that their attorney not only wants to hear their opinion; they depend on it.

They are in closed conference rooms, on conference calls in Zoom rooms, CLEs, what have you, all day long. They need to know that you have the voice of the customer nailed. They need to know all that you can understand, and you have your finger on every area of that business. Maybe not your QuickBooks, not sharing all of that, but, so go the client, so go the calendar, so go cash flows, so go everything, and they're the only ones that have control over that before the client even meets you.

Melissa: Oh, my gosh. I love what you're saying. Have you ever read Robert Cialdini's book Influence?  

Molly: Yes.

Melissa: Yes. So something you said in there is something I learned a long time ago, and it drives me batty whenever I call to make an appointment somewhere, and they don't do what he teaches, which he calls it the dual alternative close. You always give two options. “Would you prefer morning or afternoon? Morning. Great. Would you prefer Monday or Wednesday?” And you keep whittling it down until they select their actual slot.  So easy for the person.

The person doesn't have to think about anything other than just the two options in front of them, meaning like if I'm calling to make a hair appointment for example, or any kind of appointment, and they're like, "When do you want to come in?" I don't, that's an overwhelming question and then you pick a day, and they're like, "Oh, the stylist isn't here that day."

So it's the same thing that you're saying, make it easy for the client to just slide into a slot, and the easier that it is for them, everybody wins. So I'm just listening to what you're saying, and it reminded me a lot of the principles of influence that Cialdini talks about. I mean, I'm a little in ah of what you've created for this, I mean, we haven't even gotten to the other side of the business yet, but because this is like even if you read a book here or a book there on principles to apply, or how you should think about relating to the client, like the soft skills, the stuff that really matters.

Who on God's great earth can put that into an entire, like, they can mesh all that information and put it into a program that your administrative staff can take and start being better because they had the right training? It's very difficult to train that stuff correctly.

Like, this is years of experience, years of knowledge you've packaged into something that's digestible and can be utilized, but that is a pain point for people, I mean, I know you know that, that's why you have this product, but that feels like something that everybody technically wants to make time to do is to put something like this together, so that their team can really get the gist of how they need to operate, conduct themselves in conversation. I don't know, I just think this is amazing. Amazing.

Molly: Thank you. I'm really passionate about it, I mean, there's a big piece, and it's beyond training because I don't think an attorney can actually even create this program if they wanted, because most of them have not sat in that seat. When I get phone calls from people saying, "I don't know what she..."  I've written books about this, I've written blogs, I've written podcasts titled "I don't know what she does all day."

And it's one of my highest downloaded, that's my second highest download. My very first highest download that I think I wrote in this blog in 2009 and to this day it's the highest downloaded one, that my come to Jesus meetings no longer work, and I'll tell attorneys, "Listen, you got this all figured out? Here's the deal. I want you to clear your calendar and go sit with them for one day."

"I don't know why it takes this long to open the mail. I don't know why they can't blah, blah, blah." You know, they have the list. I'm like, I want you to go and set a timer for each different, and you can see all the breakdowns in your business. Number one, you have a scanner from 1990 that will only scan one page at a time. That's why it takes them 45 minutes to scan a 10,000-page document or whatever it might be.

And I really want you to get deeply curious and come at it from a view of quality control and breakdowns and process. And the other piece that we work on in the program, which is really, really fascinating to me, is the amount of imposter syndrome that employees that are not an attorney, and not a paralegal, feel in a law firm.

And it's intimidating. And it's not that anyone's doing anything to them; you can be the best attorney that is just so, have extraordinary culture and communication and empowerment and emboldenment and all that, but their own head trash, and what is going on in their head, is that, "I'm not worthy, I'm not going to give an attorney or a paralegal a suggestion or question why we're doing what we're doing the way we're doing it, because what do I know? I'm just a receptionist. I'm just a legal assistant."

Everybody knows what it takes to become an attorney, and what it takes to become a paralegal. And so the story that people that don't have those credentials have in their head, that's my biggest barrier. You can give them all the training, all the coaching, everything you want, but if it doesn't resonate and it doesn't get in their bones, it doesn't get in their blood and it doesn't clear out all the gremlins in their head, it's going to be an Oprah moment, it's going to be a fleeting.

Melissa: Yeah, I mean, that's so lucky to have you understand that so that you can be helpful in that way. Because sometimes you just need permission given from somebody, and it sounds like that's exactly what you do, and help them realize they aren't less than. They have a different role. That's not less than.

Molly: I love that you use that word. I'm reading a book I think I told you it's called Fix My Employees, and the second chapter is titled Permission.

Melissa: Oh, so good. If people are interested in the boot camp, where can they go to learn more? Is there a URL for it?

Molly: Yes, it's right on my website under services.

Melissa: Okay, perfect. So the other side of the business is recruiting.

Molly: Yes.

Melissa: And more. Like the 90 day on boarding and all that. I would love to talk to you partially because we chatted a little bit before the recording, you feel like it's really important to have the conversation about employer retention right now, so I would love to have, because recruitment is great, but you have certain people in your firm, do you know how to keep them? Or if you get someone good in your firm, do you do a good job in keeping them?

Otherwise you're just I've revolving door where they have to keep hiring Molly McGrath. So I think it's great that you mentioned you wanted to hit on that pretty hard, because that's the crux of everything. If they don't do a good job with employer retention, it's just going to be a constant battle. So what do you have to say about that? How do you want to dig in on that?

Molly: Here's the bottom line of retention. You may have a phenomenal team and that you think everybody's so happy, every law firm that calls me is like, I'm like, “Talk to me about your team, your culture, do you have a flophouse going on, a revolving door? No, our team's phenomenal, we have such, I love everyone here, we have so much fun, we work together, what have you.” And then my next question is, "Well, tell me about the structure.

Tell me about the process that you have to ensure that that does not fall through the floor." And that's where it typically is crickets, or it's, “Well, a little bit of this, a little bit of that,” and it's inconsistent, it's not persistent, and it's not systematized. And that's what I would say to everybody here, whether you have a team of rockstars that you are so incredibly grateful and proud for, and maybe y have sprinkled in there a couple of, "Uh, I'm not really sure, they're okay, they're good enough," what have you.

Or maybe you're a solo right there, or one or two or maybe some 1099 or offshore contract employees, this applies to all of you. Really truly you have to do a hard stop. A hard stop, and I'm not even going to make this into some big, massive project, but just start with giving your employees time, attention, and feedback. Period. And it has to be consistent and systematized. Having daily huddles with your team.

And if you are fortunate enough to have a CEO, or PLA, Professional Law Firm Administrator, great. Allow them to navigate the daily huddles. It doesn't have to be dependent on you. But remember, you're hiring human beings first and foremost, then human doings. And you have to invest in the relationship. I'm writing about this a lot.

COVID taught us that the employee/employer relationship is just that. The employees always viewed it as a relationship. It wasn't about the paycheck for them. That was a bonus for being connected to someone who inspired them and led them, and they love the clients, and they love their coworkers and what have you.

But employers in my experience prior to the pandemic treated it like a transaction. "You're lucky to have a job, come in and do your work, keep your mouth shut, keep your head down and you'll be rewarded with a paycheck. Where am I getting my ROI on you?" And that no longer works. So you have to really take stock of your team. I'm not talking about once-a-month happy hours.

That's gravy, but right now, if you can give them consistent time, attention, and feedback, they will not leave you. Meaning, a weekly meeting where you all are meeting and I'm happy to share all of my agendas if your members don't have agendas for this, Melissa, where you're meeting and treating it like a locker room huddle before you go on the playing field. Everybody's looking at their plan so they can plan their work and work their plan.

You're asking them, "Where are you jammed up? Where do you feel you're going to get stuck? What didn't work about last week? Where are you feeling frustrated?" You're really getting deeply curious about their heart, not just their workload. You're getting really curious and invested in their spirit because that's when people leave.

I've had people call me and say, "I'm so torn. I love my attorney, human, great human, I love our clients, what have you, but I've been made on offer that I can't refuse; it's more money, but it's not about that, I just, I don't know where we're going. I don't know where North Star is, so I feel like I'm just showing up, shooting in the dark every day."

People want to hear about your vision. They want to be connected to the heartbeat of the business. And so often, attorneys, y'all are a very hard group right now to bring rise above, to get on board with this, because we understand you are busy. You do have demands. But if you think you're busy right now and you have a shortage of time, and your key paralegal leaves, not because they want to, because they get made an offer that they get to, there's a plan for their growth, their personal and professional growth.

That's the other thing I would say is get your employees on an employee growth plan. I have a process I'm pretty proud of that I would be happy to give to all of your listeners, it's no longer a performance review. It is about them as what is your plan for growth personally and professionally. You allow them to do a self evaluation, then you allow for them to dream and put down if they had the opportunity, to what would they like to be doing in your business and your firm?

And then you do an evaluation, and you come together and you grab a cup of coffee, and you truly, truly treat it like a coaching session, not a performance review. "Are you making it or breaking it? Is your head on the chop and block? Are you going to leave me or are you going to hold me hostage and tell me if I don't give you more money, you're going to leave me?" All that anxiety vicious cycle stuff is removed from it.

Melissa: Oh, my gosh. I have a lot of ideas. First of all, it would be awesome if you were willing to share a resource for that. I think it's so incredible and it will give people a taste of you and how you think and work and just a nugget of the value you provide. And then the other thing I'm thinking, which we sort of touched on before but now my head is spinning even deeper, like having you come in at my private client retreats.

And when it gets to this section of the workbook, this is Molly, just being able to partner with you to come in and just handle in a better way than I can. I can help them get organized and be very intentional with it, but I don't have the "This is exactly what you should do." This is your jam. This is not my jam. As long as they're intentional with what they're doing, that's what's covered in the workbook, but there's so much opportunity here for, like, in depth transformation for people in their approach and how they want to be intentional and be guided by you. Anyway.

Molly: If I could just hop on that, I love that you use the word intentional, Melissa, because it just triggered something for me. It really is that simple. If you can shift, as Tony Robbins talks about the two millimeter shift, and shift your mindset and your energy and your inner action with your employees and the time that it does take to invest in them just intentionally every single day, it will shift everything for you even if you don't do the employee review or the daily huddle or what have you.

Because one thing I know that I'm consistently getting back from employees that are either conflicted or unhappy or leaving or what have you, it is the thundering silence, and it is the energy that is pushing them to that place of decision.

My coach always tells me, you are responsible for the energy you bring into the room, and you are responsible for the energy you leave in the room. And so often, even when I'm on my hiring side, I bring candidates into a Zoom room with the attorney to interview, and afterward I'll debrief with the candidate, and I will hear over and over and over and over again, "I can't put my finger on it, but this isn't the place for me to work."

Just because of the energy the attorney brought, they brought this heavy energy that, "I'm busy, I'm important, I don't have time," and they have a very dead pan poker face where they're basically treating it like they're in a deposition with the client, and you have to remember, employees every single day are interviewing and re choosing you. So none of us are off the hook. I always say it's very much like the dating process, you know, when you're in that honeymoon phase or what have you, you hear divorce lawyers talk about it all the time, what really happened was basically people got lazy and sloppy.

Melissa: I love so much of what you just said. But the part you said you're responsible for the energy you bring into the room, there's a book by Jill Bolte Taylor called A Stroke of Insight.  Does it sound familiar at all?  

Molly: No, I must read this.

Melissa: Oh, my gosh. It's such a good book. She's a neuroscientist, and she had a stroke on the left side of her brain. So the right side, which, I don't know the science.

Molly: Me either.

Melissa: But it's more abstract, it's not analytical you know like the left side, but her experience only having access to the right side of the brain, I mean, there was a bunch of wonky things that weren't okay, but her perception of what was going on around her was purely energetic because she didn't have the ability to analyze and put things together. So the nurses that would come in the room, she could tell as soon as they walked in the room which one it was, because of the energy they brought into the room, and how much it affected her.

So people who had a really positive, caring energy, it was healing. And for the people that walked in that were, you know, there to do a job, she could feel it. It detracted from her ability to stay in the space of healing. So the line in the book is, her lesson from that was she wants to tell everybody, "Please be responsible for the energy that you bring into this space." And that's what she wished she could have told every nurse before they walked into the door. It's so profound.

But your coach is mentioning you are responsible for the energy you bring in the space, and the energy you leave in the space, because that's what happens, you leave energy in the space.

Molly: Oh, that is beautiful.

Melissa: So be thoughtful about that. If there was one thing that we could all do, just have a filter or check before you walk into any meeting, before you walk into anything, you have to check yourself for that, I mean, we would all be living a better life. That's for sure. We would all be leaving much more positive things in our wake. I love that your coach pounds that in. I think that's so beautiful.

Molly: I love that you say that, "Please be responsible for the energy you leave in the room." Right? Is that the right quote?  

Melissa: Well, her quote was, "Please be responsible for the energy that you bring into this space." But I was saying, because you mentioned your coach says when you leave the room, so I just flipped it to also say that based on what your coach said.  

Molly: Well, I love that because this is something I always tell my people, my attorneys in particular, and the employees honestly, and when you said that, I'm like, "Uh, I’ve got to remember to practice this more."

Melissa: Me too.

Molly: But the power of the pause, it's so hard, it's so simple but so hard. You're running, you got your agenda and your files and everything, but I tell people make it easy on yourself. Before you start a meeting and end a meeting or an interaction, e mail, written, whatever it might be, have some bookends there to keep you honest and to serve as safety nets. So I love that, as you're talking, I never thought about the before, but afterwards, I don't care if it's a ten minute chitchat, water cooler conversation, all right real quick, “Melissa, thank you for that, just real quick, clarify with me what you're taking away from this meeting.

Okay, you want me to…” and what have you, which causes me to kind of pause and really be present with it, and make sure that I'm watching the other person, if they're flustered or agitated and feeling defensive or what have you, I'm like wow, something happened here. So I always do with the debrief, but I love what you're saying here is maybe just come in there and being really the power of the pause, taking that landing breath, what have you.

And spending that time of, "All right, real quick, here's the essence of why we're meeting, and this is what I really want for you and I to connects on today." And I think if you can do that and find your own language, find your own way whatever it might be to have safety nets on both sides to set the tone, and then to close the tone, I think even in a ten minute meeting so often, we take it for granted.

It's really cool because my kids are 20, almost 21 and 16 now, and I've worked from home for 22 years, and I've taught them that. And it's cool to hear them end conversations, they'll be like, “All right, real quick, just so clarify…” it just becomes habit after a while. They say it takes 66 days to, and give your team permission to use Melissa's word. Give them permission, say, Guys, I love this. Brené Brown talks about vulnerability all the time. We're going 10,000 miles an hour. You know what? We're going to stop, drop and roll right now, and I want us to all be really intentional what have you, and offer this up to your team. Share this podcast with them. Give them permission to come up with the little safety nets on the beginning and the end.

Melissa: Yes, absolutely. You're saying you should be better with this, I should too. It's like putting it into practice is wholly different than just understanding it. Really you have to commit to it. And I think to your point, sharing it with your team can help everybody succeed with that. Like, this is what we are doing, this is how we role here, and maybe having a 30 day experiment with it. Yeah. There's ways to integrate it that's lightweight, it can be uplifting.

Molly: Fun.

Melissa: Yeah, fun. It doesn't have to be so, like, "This is the new rule."  

Molly: You don't have to go update your employee manual pay an HR sect, like, empower your team. And I am going to use that word. They would be so happy if you shared this podcast, said, "Guys, I know we're all coming in hot, we're leaving hot, we're a hot mess," whatever it might be, "Let's start having some fun here and some consistency and be congruent. And here, listen to this podcast, and you guys come up with the framework."

Melissa: Yeah. Yes.

Molly: They would love this.

Melissa: Absolutely. They would. And they would come up with really good ideas. Absolutely. Well, we're coming up at the end of our time. Are you willing to come back for Part 2?  

Molly: Yes, of course. I could talk about this stuff all day. I love, I'm so passionate about it.

Melissa: I can tell.

Molly: Because I'm really, really, really, like, my legacy is I want to be known for completely transforming the employee/employer relationship, because they both want the exact same thing, they're just not speaking the same language.

Melissa: Yeah, absolutely. I think if we had you back for Part 2, I would love to dig in, maybe complete the conversation on employee retention and how we need to shift our thinking on that. And also maybe talk about some of the recruiting work that you do, and how firms could utilize you for that, what that looks like. It would be great to hear what you have to say on that as well.

Molly: Yeah, and I would love to share any hacks that I have to support law firms. It's tough out there. It's tough out there for certain, especially in the legal space under 1 percent unemployment for paralegals. Paralegals it's a little over two percent, attorneys 0.9 percent. So the market's tight, but do not get defeated and deflated by that at all.

Melissa: Yeah, exactly. It's good to know that the market's tight, you need to be on your best game as an owner, as an employer. But don't use it, sometimes I feel like people get all victimy, like, Eeyore. Like, "Well, the market's tight." Okay, well now what? It is tight, and? And let's go.

Molly: Yeah, the real estate market's tight, but are you homeless? No.

Melissa: Exactly. That's funny, totally. Thank you so much for being on today. We have to do this Part 2.

Molly: Thank you for having me.

Melissa: Okay. I'll put everything in the show notes like the little guide that you're willing to share, we'll put those in the show notes.

Molly: Absolutely. Yes.

Melissa: Sounds great. And of course, all your information, if people want to reach out to you, best way to do that is your website?  

Molly: Yes, and you can just opt in, we drop a new podcast every Tuesday and a new blog every Thursday, and I really, really try to give you all practical, easy tips and tricks and hacks to support both the employee and the employer at the same time.

Melissa: So good. So good. All right, thanks. Thanks everyone for listening, we'll see you here next Tuesday.

Hey, you may not know this, but there's a free guide for a process that I teach called Monday Map, Friday Wrap. If you go to, it's all yours. It's about how to plan your time and honor your plans, so that week over week, more work that moves the needle is getting done in less time. Go to to get your free copy.

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